MLS Stadium Update

Ulrich said:
Hey, everybody, listen to me.... I've said this many times in the past and the laws of construction (materials & labor) haven't changed.... it is far more cost effective to build something the correct way the first time rather than going back to renovate/expand later. I'm sure NYCFC will have an expansion plan in place, but they're not going to dink around with expanding from 25k to 30k to then something bigger farther down the road. For the time and effort that they're putting into this bitch to get it from talking points to something real, I cannot see them jumping off with less than 30k and more likely 35k. In NYC, you get one chance on a construction site.

And in case anybody forgot, that dip in attendance was because we had a self-righteous coach that led the team to finish the season outside of the playoffs while playing the ugliest of soccer. No wonder 2k people said adios. I would be surprised if we don't rebound this next year - new DP, a 2nd place finish/playoffs, and a watchable product that Vieira instituted.
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Agreed. 35k+ please! I think being in a baseball stadium definitely hurts the attendance a bit, and we've only existed for two years!! When it comes to a stadium (especially as one as difficult to build as in NYC), you have to be thinking about 10, 15, 20 years out... By that point... some/many current NYCFC fans will have kids that are NYCFC fans and buying tickets :).

It makes me incredibly happy to see some teams expanding their stadiums or going big in new stadiums.... and conversely so sad to see some teams going small with paltry seat numbers like 19, 20, 22, etc. I understand some are in smaller markets, but still.....

My biggest feeling when it comes to stadiums is... to mix sports culture/cliches: If you build it, they will come! A HUGE part of attending a sports event, particularly soccer (hell, any entertainment event in America), is the atmosphere. If you give people a 20,000 seat stadium... that's "meh"... that doesn't excite people. You tell people they're going to be in a stadium of 40,000 and that gets attention! That's a professional sports game. Then it becomes "the thing to do", and you get not only the hardcore soccer fans (like us), but also the casual fans, which you truly need in order to build this league. The stadium (size and atmosphere) need to make it a DESTINATION.
 
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I feel as if I've read this argument time and time again, only in a different thread.

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NYCFC_JD said:
Agreed. 35k+ please! I think being in a baseball stadium definitely hurts the attendance a bit, and we've only existed for two years!! When it comes to a stadium (especially as one as difficult to build as in NYC), you have to be thinking about 10, 15, 20 years out... By that point... some/many current NYCFC fans will have kids that are NYCFC fans and buying tickets :).

It makes me incredibly happy to see some teams expanding their stadiums or going big in new stadiums.... and conversely so sad to see some teams going small with paltry seat numbers like 19, 20, 22, etc. I understand some are in smaller markets, but still.....

My biggest feeling when it comes to stadiums is... to mix sports culture/cliches: If you build it, they will come! A HUGE part of attending a sports event, particularly soccer (hell, any entertainment event in America), is the atmosphere. If you give people a 20,000 seat stadium... that's "meh"... that doesn't excite people. You tell people they're going to be in a stadium of 40,000 and that gets attention! That's a professional sports game. Then it becomes "the thing to do", and you get not only the hardcore soccer fans (like us), but also the casual fans, which you truly need in order to build this league. The stadium (size and atmosphere) need to make it a DESTINATION.
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Eventually you're point realizes that soccer will become massive like the NFL and will need 60-80K stadiums, which won't fit in the downtown area that MLS likes now.

The NFL will cease to exist before MLS does because of health issues and MLS teams will takeover NFL stadiums. They'll be rebuild for soccer (at least the field).

Maybe that's why the Revs won't ever move, because they are already at their permanent home.
 
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LionNYC said:
Eventually you're point realizes that soccer will become massive like the NFL and will need 60-80K stadiums, which won't fit in the downtown area that MLS likes now.

The NFL will cease to exist before MLS does because of health issues and MLS teams will takeover NFL stadiums. They'll be rebuild for soccer (at least the field).

Maybe that's why the Revs won't ever move, because they are already at their permanent home.
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Certainly possible in the long, long run. I feel bad for Revs fans.... they don't have a stadium because the Krafts are just using the Revs to get extra revenue in the NFL stadium they already own. They care far more about the business side than their fans. And I guess enough Revs fans keep showing up that they haven't really pressured the team to do anything real. If we don't have a stadium 3...4...5 years from now, I'm gone.... not because I don't like the team, but because I do. Sometimes fans have to tell the ownership to *$!# off, take their money and go (with the plan/hope for it to be temporary), for the good of the club and hold the ownership to higher standards. I don't think we'll get to that point... but geez if I was a Revs fan, I'd have gotten there a long time ago.
 
FootyLovin said:
Um. Red Bull Arena.
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We may hate on the Red Bulls (as we should, being our rival), but Red Bull Arena was a God-send for this league, and soccer in the country... you can't say it's not a great stadium, and one of the best and first soccer specific stadiums in the country. If we don't have our own stadium come 5 years from now, we will be wishing we had something like RBA.

RBA does fill up, a lot. The problems are a bit complicated... but I think mostly come from 1) overall branding of Red Bulls, and 2) the fact that they've shoved themselves in between NY and NJ trying to appeal to both... but have built in NJ (understandably a bit harder to get to for those from the 5 boroughs) and in an area of NJ that folks from the NJ burbs think (though they're wrong) it's a pain to get to... not to mention they don't appeal to NJ fans at all (they try to make themselves all about NY). Based on that recent Empire of Soccer survey, Red Bulls draw (if I remember right) like 90-95% of their fans from NJ -- they'd be better off rebranding as NJ and running with that.
 
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NYCFC_JD said:
We may hate on the Red Bulls (as we should, being our rival), but Red Bull Arena was a God-send for this league, and soccer in the country... you can't say it's not a great stadium, and one of the best and first soccer specific stadiums in the country. If we don't have our own stadium come 5 years from now, we will be wishing we had something like RBA.

RBA does fill up, a lot. The problems are a bit complicated... but I think mostly come from 1) overall branding of Red Bulls, and 2) the fact that they've shoved themselves in between NY and NJ trying to appeal to both... but have built in NJ (understandably a bit harder to get to for those from the 5 boroughs) and in an area of NJ that folks from the NJ burbs think (though they're wrong) it's a pain to get to... not to mention they don't appeal to NJ fans at all (they try to make themselves all about NY). Based on that recent Empire of Soccer survey, Red Bulls draw (if I remember right) like 90-95% of their fans from NJ -- they'd be better off rebranding as NJ and running with that.
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Agree. Needs to be named New Jersey, and needs a different identity than a beverage that might as well be an emetic.
 
Gotham Gator said:
Needs to be named New Jersey,
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Unlikely to happen. I doubt Red Bull thinks "New Jersey" has the brand image they want to be associated with*, and MLS probably wants two teams clearly associated with the NYC media market.

I mean, as stupid as it is, both "NYC" NFL teams are really New Jersey teams, too, but that's unlikely to change for similar reasons (and NYC NFL fans don't seem too bothered by it... but then again they have no other option). Apologies to New Jersey, but selling that state as a brand is pretty tough.

*Then again, does Leipzig? Hard to compare having a Bundesliga team to an MLS team, I suppose, for prestige.
 
NYCFC_JD said:
We may hate on the Red Bulls (as we should, being our rival), but Red Bull Arena was a God-send for this league, and soccer in the country... you can't say it's not a great stadium, and one of the best and first soccer specific stadiums in the country. If we don't have our own stadium come 5 years from now, we will be wishing we had something like RBA.

RBA does fill up, a lot. The problems are a bit complicated... but I think mostly come from 1) overall branding of Red Bulls, and 2) the fact that they've shoved themselves in between NY and NJ trying to appeal to both... but have built in NJ (understandably a bit harder to get to for those from the 5 boroughs) and in an area of NJ that folks from the NJ burbs think (though they're wrong) it's a pain to get to... not to mention they don't appeal to NJ fans at all (they try to make themselves all about NY). Based on that recent Empire of Soccer survey, Red Bulls draw (if I remember right) like 90-95% of their fans from NJ -- they'd be better off rebranding as NJ and running with that.
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I wasn't hating on RBA or even NJRB. I was pointing out that there is a logical fallacy and a nearby counter example to the if you build it they will come statement you made. Even with a great facility in a huge market a team can still do a lot to make it work or screw it up in getting fans in seats.

#mobilepost
 
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FootyLovin said:
I wasn't hating on RBA or even NJRB. I was pointing out that there is a logical fallacy and a nearby counter example to the if you build it they will come statement you made. Even with a great facility in a huge market a team can still do a lot to make it work or screw it up in getting fans in seats.

#mobilepost
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Yea definitely can still be screwed up. You're absolutely right. I guess my main point was just with regard to the size of the stadium / number of seats. If you have more seats, you have a bigger/louder/flashier/more marketable event that people want to go to and talk about (e.g., 40k vs. 25k).

I'm hoping we hear something, ANYTHING about progress or at least efforts on a stadium. The survey was almost a year ago, right? Even if there's nothing to point to, it'd at least be nice for them to keep season ticketholders and fans in general up to date (while understanding that specifics need to be hush hush a lot of times when figuring out / negotiating deals for property, etc.).
 
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